Secret Keeper, the new duo of Mary Halvorson and Stephen Crump will be playing "Indeterminacies" at Zeitgeist Gallery here in Nashville on Friday, May 10. The event starts at 7:00pm and is FREE and open to the public. In honor of their Nashville debut, here is the full transcript of my interview with Ms. Halvorson which took place on December 1, 2012 at the Blackwell Inn in Columbus, Ohio prior to her quartet gig at the University of Ohio. A drastically edited and rearranged version appeared on Spectrum Culture in January (Part One and Part Two). I am no journalist so I apologize for the rambling (if not totally incoherent) questions. She was actually quite gracious and generous with her time and it was pleasure to talk with her. The full transcript will be posted here over the next few days. Herewith is Part Two. Enjoy!
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RC: Um. I’m kind of
jumping around, I’m sort of improvising this interview…
MH: That’s great [laughs]. That’s cool.
RC: So you and
Jessica Pavone just did a little tour; that was your tenth anniversary?
MH: Uh-huh.
RC: Now, I take it
then that was maybe the first thing you did when you came to New York was work
with Jessica?
MH: Yeah, it was. She was the first person I met.
RC: Oh, really?
MH: We were neighbors, weirdly enough. It’s funny to be
neighbors in New York. We live like a block away from each other.
RC: How funny. And
you didn’t meet through Braxton’s group then?
MH: Not through Braxton, but we had mutual friends because,
she actually didn’t go to Wesleyan, contrary to what many people think, she
went to the Hart School of Music where she was playing with Middletown Creative
Orchestra and she would drive down a lot and work with a lot of Wesleyan
people. So, we had friends in common, so we did meet through mutual friends.
RC: Now those records
are really interesting too because, um, you’ve said it’s like “writing your own
folk music.”
MH: Right.
RC: And I know you’ve
mentioned Robert Wyatt being a big influence for a while. I hear a lot of sort
of Canterbury elements to that music.
MH: Hmm.
RC: Kind of
folk-rock, um, it’s not jazz.
MH: Not really. And I think because Jess never studied jazz,
she’s coming more from a classical background and she’s also really into a lot
of folk music and a lot of chamber music so I think it more takes on that kind
of influence. There’s probably some jazz influence there but it’s not that
strong.
RC: And maybe not
even a lot of improvisation, more through-composed.
MH: Some of them are through-composed and some of them have
improvisation.
RC: And the singing
is lovely, I love the harmonies and the, and you both have sort of plain
voices—I mean that in the best way.
MH: We’re not singers, yeah. So that’s the kind thing that,
I kind of like it when you have singing that’s kind of raw, like it’s not
polished. Although some polished singers I really love, but it’s kind of, we’re
just singing almost not because we’re trying to be singers but because the song
requires that, you know what I mean? [laughs]
RC: Uh-huh. Right.
MH: So, we’re just singing. It’s pretty simple, yeah.
RC: It’s beautiful
stuff. And so you’ve made three records?
MH: Four actually.
RC: That’s right, the
new one on Thirsty Ear makes four.
MH: The new one, yeah, Departure of Reason is the newest
one. It’s I think it’s now almost a year old, though.
RC: Uh-huh. Um. Oh
yeah, and so then People is another area where you sing as well and it has very
much a rock sort of feel.
MH: And that was also another when I left the New School and
I was thinking of doing different stuff. I was more interested in rock music
around that time and People was probably the second band I formed after the duo
with Jess and I was kind of experimenting with having a rock band and then I
met Kevin and we just started working on that stuff.
RC: That’s great
stuff. And you have a new one coming out.
MH: Theoretically. [laughter]
RC: Theoretically?
MH: It’s been—I couldn’t even tell you what we’ve been
through I mean we recorded that, the “new CD,” I think was recorded in like
2009 or something. And we had three different labels kind of screw us over,
kind of string us along and say they were going to put it out and be like, oh
never mind, and then we’d be back to square one. So we’ve been sitting on it
for a long time. But I really like the record, I hope it gets out. We have a
plan now which is actually the same label that put out our first two records.
It’s funny, we ended circling back around. They weren’t doing stuff for a while
and then by the time we’d gotten screwed over enough times, they were ready to
put it out again. But Peter Evans did some horn arrangements on it.
RC: Yeah, I saw
something about that. That will be interesting.
MH: It’s really cool, I like what he did. And then we have a
bass player now, who also sings. So it’s a little different than the other
records.
RC: Have you ever
thought about adding a rhythm section to what you and Jessica are doing or is
it strictly a duo, intimate kind of thing?
MH: I think…yeah, we’ve more thought about it as a duo although
we’ve other groups with rhythm sections, like we did that quartet with
Devin Hoff and Ches Smith, which did one record and that was a while ago. And
we’ve worked with Tomas and Taylor in the 13th Assembly, so I guess
we feel like we have other contexts where we can work with other people and the
duo will probably just remain the duo.
RC: Particularly when
the singing is going on it’s almost like, if there was a little more heft here,
you know, this could almost be like popular music.
MH: [laughs] That’s great.
RC: But maybe that’s
something you’re avoiding, you know, doing something overt like that.
MH: Part of the duo in a sense is kind of just a natural
extension of our friendship, you know? So we hang out a lot, we spend a lot of
time together and then we get together and play music and, it just seems, I
guess the idea of adding someone never occurred to us.
RC: It might make it
more complicated.
MH: Yeah, because it’s so easy. It’s so easy, you know, it
just feels natural. We show up, we have some songs, we’ve rehearsed them. It’s
easy schedule. We work really well together in terms of just planning stuff and
working on music and so it’s pretty easy.
RC: Yeah, there’s
almost no division between like what her material might be and your material,
it seems very integrated.
MH: That’s good.
RC: So, you’ve gotten
a lot of great press, in the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, a big
write-up in Downbeat this year—have you had any major labels come knocking on
your door wanting you do something?
MH: Actually, I haven’t, you know [laughs].
RC: Maybe that’s a
good thing?
MH: Yeah, I mean it’s, you know, I’ve actually been really
happy working with Firehouse. That’s been really great. Um, and in a sense I
don’t really see a need for it. I mean, it’s like, it’s nice having, I mean I
have total control over the music and they do a great job and they also have
great insight. In the studio, I mean, Nick is really great in the studio from
Firehouse and if I ever have some kind of a question about, oh, I don’t know
which track, he always has great opinions. I’m just really comfortable wth them
and I really like working with them, so…
RC: Do you like
making records?
MH: I love making records.
RC: You do?
MH: Yeah.
RC: I can sort of
tell because you have a pretty big discography.
MH: It’s just so nice, recording is such a nice process, I
think. I really enjoy it.
RC: Hmm. A lot of
jazz people are like, "I don’t like making records…"
MH: Really?
RC: Like, "the
bandstand is where it’s at…"
MH: I mean, yeah, I mean probably if I had to choose one, I
would be a performer rather than a recording artist.
RC: I don’t hear a
lot of difference between you on the bandstand and you on records, particularly
with your own band. Maybe because you rehearse you rehearse a lot.
MH: Yeah, well, my band doesn’t rehearse a lot [laughter]
but we play a lot of shows. Um, but, I mean, it’s different, there’s a
different energy you get in the studio and it’s different than a live show, I
mean just to be able to spend time capturing the exact perfect sound for each
instrument and to really, the nice thing about recording is the clarity that
you’re able to present that can’t always get in a live show. Maybe the sound is
bad or maybe one side of the room you can’t hear the guitar, the other side you
can’t hear the bass, you know? It’s nice to have, to present something the way
you want it heard, with the exact precision, I kind of like that about it.
RC: And it’s great
for fans, particularly ones who don’t live in New York, so we get to hear what
you’re up to. Um, so…I don’t really want to get into a whole gear discussion
but on my humble little blog, I’ve described you as the “most complete
guitarist” and what I mean by that is that you, you take advantage of every
aspect that the instrument has to offer, you don’t just sort of limit yourself
to certain sort of sounds and one of the things I find really interesting is
that you know you play that gigantic Guild, which has this big acoustic sound
and you incorporate that acoustic sound into your electric sound, you’ll pull
the volume back and there’s just the acoustic sound, maybe blend it, with a
little bit of distortion with that clean sound and, um, you’re willing to use
technology…um…is there a question here? I’m not sure.
MH: [laughs]
RC: Um, well, OK. You
mentioned that you got a little sick of the guitar and you went out and got a
bunch of effects pedals and sort of worked your way through it.
MH: Yeah, that was when I was at the New School, it’s true,
I did do that.
RC: And so what is
your feeling about technology? A lot of
guitarists get, you know, they get a huge rack of gear and they bury their
sound in effects and you don’t do that, you, you’re basic sound is that
acoustic string, that pure sound of the guitar but you’re totally willing to
warp that sound.
MH: Um-hm. Yeah, I mean, I think that, obviously every
guitar player approaches it differently and it’s just my taste but I really
like having a mix of these things. I really like having the acoustic sound of
the guitar mixed in because I really feel like that’s a really important aspect
of the guitar, the attack of the pick and the sound of the wood. But then
you’re having at your disposal an electric guitar so, you know, it’s nice to be
able to take advantage of amplifiers and get a tone that you like and feedback
and effects, and so but I like that to be balanced and blended. And I’m not
saying that’s the only way to do it because I’ve heard plenty of guitarists who
maybe have a wall of effects like this, which could be really bad, but if you
have great control over that stuff, I’ve heard like Ty Braxton is an example of
somebody who has complete control and does amazing things, looping all these
effects. And then you get people that don’t have any kind of acoustic element
really to their electric guitar, you know, it’s all from the amp. And that can
be great, too. But I don’t know. Personally, I just like having that balance
and I like to being able to think that if the amp was taken away and all the
effects were taken away that the core of the instrument is still there and I
could still come up with something. And I kind of think of the effects as like
ornaments, like ornamenting or adding something to it.
RC: Yeah because it’s
not like you just step on that distortion pedal and like that’s it and you sort
use it as an accent or…
MH: Yeah, yeah it’s like something to, just a little
something extra to kind of..
.
RC: Does that create
a challenge, like in the small venues that you play in New York, you can back
off and you can still hear the guitar but on like a bigger stage, that must be
a challenge.
MH: Yeah, what I usually do in that situation (and for
recording as well) is put a mic on, right in front of the strings, so then if
it’s like a big hall or something, they can blend this mic and the mic on the
amp and so then when the amp goes off you can still hear just the acoustic. So
usually that works and I always record like that, with a mic on the strings and
a mic on the amp.
RC: So, I heard a
story where you used to tour with the big Guild and your dad built a flight
case for it or something, is that right?
MH: [laughs] He’s an architect so he likes doing these
really detailed drawings.
RC: He did the
drawings…
MH: He didn’t build the case, he did, the company was gonna,
because my guitar is such a weird size, it needs like a custom shape. So the
flight company required like a detailed—I mean, they were just asking for a few
measurements, they were asking, like what’s the length of the body, and the
this and how long is the neck. I guess maybe they were asking for 10
measurements or something and my dad said he’d do it. But before I know it, I
he’s completely carried away and he’s, I mean, he’s doing, you know, he’s
measuring the distance between this and across here and this length and he’s
drawing little diagrams. I mean, that’s on the cover of Saturn Sings, you’ve
seen it. But it was hilarious, I mean, I can’t imagine what these people
thought at the company.
RC: I assume the case
was well-made.
MH: It was, I mean, it worked [laughs].
RC: Um, but then like
you took it to Europe and the guitar didn’t make it until like the last minute
or something.
MH: Yeah, it almost missed a gig once. Um, I mean, there’s a
number of reasons why I don’t do it. One is that I travel so much and I’m not that
strong [laughs] and I’m really tired and then the thing weighs 50 pounds. It
takes up, you know it’s this long—it’s like a coffin, I’m basically carrying
around a coffin. You know, so by the end it’s like my muscles are aching and
the thing is getting lost and it’s really not good for the wood to be exposed
to such cold temperatures. And, in the end, it’s like, it doesn’t even fit in
the trunk of a normal sized cab, so it just creates a lot of inconveniences.
And so I thought I really need to find something smaller that still has that
kind of acoustic quality that I like that I can travel with. So, that’s what I will
be playing tonight. But the latest update on that is that I’m having, so OK. So
basically, I’m still having problems because I try to carry on my guitar.
You’ll see the neck, it’s very small, the guitar I’m playing and I have a
little gig bag I carry it on the plane—so but even with that, I mean, you get
people telling you you can’t carry it on, I mean, with the airplane
restrictions getting worse and worse and it’s really stressful because I’ll
show up—I can’t sleep the night before because I’m worried my guitar is not
going to make it and there’s really no right answer, you know, I haven’t
figured out an answer because it still stresses me out. I have a couple of
friends, actually John Hebert is one and Michael Formanek, bass players who’ve
had this surgery done on their bass so the neck is removable so they can check
the bass, the upright bass, like in a, um, still in like a bass coffin, but
without the head so it’s like half the height and then neck goes in a separate
little case and then they’re able to bring their instrument to Europe with a
little bit more ease. I mean, it’s still a pain in the ass to carry around an
upright bass. But I was thinking about it because I’d done a trip with Michael
Formanek to California and he brought the bass that way. And I thought, if you
can do it to a bass, why can’t you do that to a guitar? And then I thought if I
can just put my guitar in a suitcase sized thing and carry it on the plane and
I wouldn’t have to worry about anything? And so then I know this guitar builder—I
would never do that to my Guild, because I wouldn’t be able to it—but I know
this guitar builder who I have a relationship with who has done some repairs
for me before, he’s really talented (?) and has built all kinds of insane
guitars and he’s really into weird, one-off projects and he said he would build
a guitar for me. So we can custom build it from scratch, so everything is
custom, you know, from the pickups to the size of the body, everything, and
build it with a removable neck, so I can fold up the guitar. And we’re actually
going to build it into a suitcase. So we’re going buy suitcase, build the
guitar so that it fits into the suitcase and then I can walk on the plane. So
this is the new model, my new model of travel.
RC: Oh, wow.
MH: Of course, he has five or six guitars to build before
mine so I’m on kind of a waiting list. So it’s going to take a little while.
RC: I was going to
ask how long it might be…
MH: I guess it would be two or three years but that’s my
plan. And I’ve never had a custom guitar so it could be really cool to work
with him to design this instrument from the beginning.
RC: So is it going to
be a hollow-body, sort of similar kind of things?
MH: Yeah. I’m going to try to make it look—not look—I’m
going to try to make it sound and feel as similar to my Guild as I can, but
still, you know, have it fold up.
RC: Wow. I would
wonder how the whole tension of the neck and the strings and stuff, is that
like inviting intonation problems by taking the neck off and on?
MH: I think this guy would know how to do it. There are
companies that are doing this now with guitars, so I’m sure they use different
materials or some way where that isn’t a problem. But I trust that this guy
will figure out a way so that it will be cool. Supposedly you have a bolt, you
know, you fold it over, you don’t even have to take the strings totally off.
You loosen the strings, fold the thing and then you bolt it back together and
then just tighten the strings.
RC: Wow.
MH: That’s kind of the plan. So we’ll see. I’m very excited
about it.
RC: Yeah, because I
was wondering, I was looking at gig schedule, you’ve played over 100 gigs this
year and you’ve been back and forth to Europe four times. Um, traveling with a
guitar must be, like you said, hard.
MH: It’s just stressful and I think anything I can do to
make traveling fun [laughs] and not stressful with the amount that I travel, I
think it will really help. So, I’m excited about that.
RC: Do you like
traveling?
MH: I love it except for that aspect of it, I really do.
RC: That’s good
because you travel a lot!
MH: Yeah [laughs]. But just having it, I mean, every day is a
fight, you get to one thing and, oh you can’t bring that on, and then you’re
fighting with the people, then you might stopped at the check-in gate, you
might get stopped up at the actual gate, you might get stopped at security, so
it’s all these stages where you’re wondering what’s going happen and fighting
with people and it’s just exhausting.
RC: I can only
imagine Braxton with all his myriad saxophones.
MH: Oh, yeah, I mean, he told that he used to—I don’t know
when this was, when he was very young he went to do a solo show in Europe and I
think he brought like 10 horns or something and he just had them in piles—and
this was when you could check as much stuff as you want—you just have them in
piles, like moving all these horns, you know, out of the airport. I don’t know
how—it’s amazing. I don’t know how people do it but, yeah, I’m trying to
streamline the process.
RC: So, what brings
you to Columbus, Ohio?
MH: Um, this gig? [laughter] Which I’m very excited about
because it’s—I’ve played here before but not for maybe five, six years. It’s
really nice, I really like being able to travel in the states because most of
the work is in Europe and it’s always really great when you get an opportunity
to play somewhere in the states because there’s so many interesting cities.
It’s just hard, you know, it doesn’t happen that often.
RC: Right. Well, I
was going to ask you what would it take to get you to come to Nashville?
MH: [laughs]. I would love to come to Nashville. But, you
know, especially with a five-piece band, and you have to get everyone over with
the flights and pay everyone, so it it’s not easy to do. And people are so
busy, I mean even finding a time when everyone’s free is, I was lucky that this
worked out [laughs], everyone was free.
RC: You’ve been
playing more in “flyover country,” it seems…
MH: In where?
RC: “Flyover
country,” you know, between New York and LA, you know, is “flyover country.”
MH: Yeah, actually I did a gig in—“flyover,” I like that—I
did a gig in St. Louis, Missouri and Ann Arbor, Michigan recently and that was
amazing, it was so fun.
RC: And 13th
Assembly was in Alabama last year, I think?
MH: Yeah, that’s true, we played at the University of
Alabama.
RC: And my wife and I
were seriously considering going and for whatever reason it didn’t happen which
is why we were like, OK, Columbus, only a six hours away, we’re going!
MH: [laughs] That is so nice, that is so cool you came all
this way.
RC: Oh, hey, New York
is even further so, um. Well, I don’t know how much time you have?
MH: What time is getting to be?
RC: It’s 4:15?
MH: Definitely until like 4:30. We have to go to sound check
afterwards.
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END OF PART TWO.
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