Secret Keeper, the new duo of Mary Halvorson and Stephen Crump will be playing "Indeterminacies" at Zeitgeist Gallery here in Nashville on Friday, May 10. The event starts at 7:00pm and is FREE and open to the public. In honor of their Nashville debut, here is the full transcript of my interview with Ms. Halvorson which took place on December 1, 2012 at the Blackwell Inn in Columbus, Ohio prior to her quartet gig at the University of Ohio. A drastically edited and rearranged version appeared on Spectrum Culture in January (Part One and Part Two). I am no journalist so I apologize for the rambling (if not totally incoherent) questions. She was actually quite gracious and generous with her time and it was pleasure to talk with her. The full transcript has been posted here over the next few days. Herewith is the Third and final part. Enjoy!
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RC: You’ve mentioned
that you like Deerhoof.
MH: I love Deerhoof, yeah.
RC: That’s really
interesting, um, because a friend of mine is way into them, he’s into their
drummer and you’ve mentioned their guitarist and I was listening to them this
week and I was going, you know, I can sort hear it, particularly like during
the more rock-oriented stuff, the sort of jagged rhythms—
MH: Uh-hmm and they have two guitarists now which I also
really like because they blend in a really interesting way, I mean, interesting
orchestration of the guitars.
RC: Yeah, and the
whole rhythm of it is very different from most rock music today. What other
sorts of music do you like to listen to that people might be surprised by.
MH: Might be surprised…hmmm…[pause]. I listen to all sorts
of things. Um. I mean I love a lot of old soul stuff. Um. I listen to a lot of
old music [laughs].
RC: Me too!
MH: A lot of old jazz. Um. You know, I’ll check out
anything. I mean I also like to try to keep up with what’s happening now,
especially in the jazz scene but also you know bands like Deerhoof. Um. I just
got the new Frank Ocean CD, which I found really interesting.
RC: Hmmm.
MH: It’s a little bit of a different thing. But, I don’t
know. I love Sam Cooke. Um…Yeah, a lot of jazz. I don’t know, it really
depends. I don’t have like a regular routine of listening or anything.
RC: Do you collect
records?
MH: Some. I don’t have a huge record collection but I, it is
my preferred form for listening.
RC: So, vinyl? I was
going to ask you about that because the second MAP record is vinyl-only.
MH: Yeah.
RC: And it’s
gorgeous!
MH: Yeah, that label is really cool, vinyl label.
RC: I’m kind of
surprised to see that is still available, I would think that would be snapped
up, you know, right away, but um…
MH: Yeah, I have so many copies of it at home [laughs].
Because, I don’t want to bring it on tour because it’s heavy. You know, so
that’s the thing, that’s the problem with vinyl is you don’t want to be
carrying it around. So, I rarely sell it so I have all these—I mean, I bring
copies to Downtown Music Gallery sometimes because I never sell it.
RC: So, you prefer
vinyl to CD?
MH: I love listening to vinyl.
RC: What is it about
it you like?
MH: Just the sound, I mean the—it just creates a different
feeling, you know, just the sound of the record. The MP3s especially, it’s so,
you really lose something.
RC: Yeah, sure.
MH: So I love listening and I inherited my dad’s record
player, because he wasn’t listening to it, so he just gave it to me. And he
bought it in like 1967, and it still has the original speakers, so there’s
something really timeless about that, you know? Technology is changing like
every day but you have this record player that still works, sounds great, with
the same speakers from that year.
RC: Right, it’s just
a needle being dragged through a piece of plastic…
MH: Yeah. Do you listen to it? Do you have a lot of vinyl?
RC: Oh yeah,
thousands of records.
MH: Oh wow. I bet. I bet you have a crazy record collection!
RC: [Laughs] Well, I
like CDs, too. You know, the thing about CDs that I like is that, you know,
pitch is not an issue, it’s always on pitch, and, you know, speed variations
don’t make it warble. I love vinyl, but it’s kind of a pain.
MH: It is. But I kind of like those weird quirks sometimes.
RC: Uh-hum.
MH: But it’s nice to have both. I think it’s nice to have
both as an option.
RC: Do you find that
when you go into the studio and you’ve made your record and when you finally
get it in your hand, you’re like it doesn’t quite sound like what we were doing
or is it pretty close, or…
MH: Usually it’s pretty close because you’ve monitored at every
stage along the way, you know, you’ve been there for the mixing and the
mastering and coming up with the order. I feel like if you’re involved with the
process, hopefully you’ve gotten it to a point where you’re happy with it. The
thing that happens is the process takes so long, you feel like it’s an old
record by the time it comes out. That’s the thing about it that I don’t like.
RC: It seems like some things, they get recorded and then it’s years
before they ever come out.
MH: Sometimes. I mean, the People record is going to be like
that.
RC: I hear there is a
new Anti-House record in the can.
MH: Uh-huh.
RC: Will that be on
Intakt again? They’re generally pretty timely, it seems.
MH: Yeah, Intakt is a great label.
RC: Yeah.
MH: I have another record coming out on Intakt actually
which is a duo with Stephan Crump.
RC: Right – Secret
Keeper?
MH: Yeah, that will be out in March or something. But
they’ve been great, great people to work with.
RC: Yeah, that
Anti-House record is one of my favorite records of all time.
MH: Oh, that’s so cool.
RC: It’s just again
that’s one of those bands where it’s like anything could happen, you know?
MH: Um-hm.
RC: And within a very
short period of time, anything could happen. It’s interesting to compare that
to like the Tom Rainey Trio, which is essentially the same people but the
music’s very different.
MH: Yeah, very different. Ingrid is a great composer, I
really like what she does.
RC: And a great
player, too.
MH: Oh yeah, she’s one of my favorites.
RC: My sense is that
the Tom Rainey Trio is more improvised.
MH: It’s entirely improvised.
RC: Oh, it’s entirely
improvised, OK. And then Anti-House is quite tightly constructed.
MH: Yeah, again but with spaces for things to happen, but
yeah, she writes—her compositions are actually pretty involved and pretty
difficult. I usually have to spend a lot of time learning them, which I’m happy
to do because I love her music.
RC: So how so, like
what makes them difficult?
MH: Rhythmically, there’s a lot of tricky rhythm stuff and
also a lot of like big leaps sometimes pitch-wise, so, um, yeah, it sometimes
it just takes a lot of coordination and a lot of times there will be tricky
rhythm stuff and somebody else will be playing a different tricky rhythm
simultaneously but they don’t necessarily line up until a certain point. You
know, it’s not like you’re playing against a beat so you have a sense of where
you are so it’s also tricky. You have to really learn it.
RC: Well, it sounds
so effortless on record and some of the live things I’ve heard.
MH: That’s good! [Laughs] That’s nice.
RC: But maybe that
sort of tension is sort of built into it. Like, there’s some music that is, um,
I think some of Braxton’s music is like this, where there’s so many complex
rhythms going on that it doesn’t really matter if they don’t line up completely.
MH: Right.
RC: That sort of
imprecision is sort of a part of what makes the music interesting.
MH: Oh, totally, yeah, I think that is.
RC: So, well the new
Anti-House record be similar to the last one? Or will it be moving in a new
direction?
MH: I haven’t heard the final version, I’ve only heard
drafts of it but I think it’s great, I think it’s going to be really good. The
sound is amazing and it’s, the band has been together longer, so there’s kind
of more cohesion.
RC: Uh-hm. And is
Kris Davis a little more involved on this one?
MH: Yeah, yeah, she’s on I think every track.
RC: You don’t play
with pianists very often—
MH: Not very often. I love to, but yeah for some reason it
doesn’t seem to happen very often.
RC: Well, I think
it’s kind of hard thing, I think, two harmonic instruments like that, it’s hard
to get a blend. But she’s really amazing player as well.
MH: Yeah, she’s incredible.
RC: And always seems
to know what register to be in and never gets in anyone’s way but yet there’s
always a lot going on. So that will be interesting to hear.
MH: Yeah, I’m excited about it.
RC: So this duet with
Stephan Crump seems like that’s a recent sort of thing, you started playing
together?
MH: Yeah, it’s been about a year and half ago we started
getting together playing and recording—he has a studio in his home, a music
studio, so we’ve been getting together and just basically recording everything
we’ve done. And so we put out an album. And that’s all improvisations, although
we’ve been writing compositions, too, so the following record, which will be on
Intakt a couple years later is going to be those compositions.
RC: Ah, great! So,
what about Thumb Screw, which is you and Michael Formanek and Tomas Fujuwara?
So how is that different from like your trio stuff, it’s a guitar/bass/drums
trio…
MH: Yeah. It’s funny because I was wondering that too but it
feels very different, it just has a very different energy, partly just because
Mike and Tomas are such different players than Ches and John and partly because
it’s not all my compositions, it’s also their compositions. And I think you
write differently for different people, so probably even my compositions are
going to be different for that band, for the trio. Somehow, it feels really
different. I can’t really articulate how but that’s been interesting to notice.
I didn’t know what was going to happen and then once that band started, I was
like wow, this is really different than the trio.
RC: That’s really
exciting. I’m looking through your list of gigs with all kinds of people,
Instant Strangers with Tim Berne—
MH: Oh, that hasn’t played yet, but we’re going to have a
gig later in the month.
RC: Mike Reed’s
Living By Lanterns….I mean it’s just sort of endless. It’s almost like, um,
it’s almost like you’ll play with anybody—no, that sounds awful, I mean—
MH: [laughs] That’s fine!
RC: But it’s not like
you’re locked into a “this is my thing.”
MH: Yeah.
RC: It seems like any
of these people in this crowd want to get together and do something, you’re
there and you’re contributing to what’s required.
MH: I mean it’s sort of a combination, because I like to do
a variety of things, um, but then there’s a point where it becomes too much and
you feel too scattered, so it’s kind of about finding that balance where you’re
doing a lot of things but, I mean, a lot of the times there’s so many things
that I want to do that I’ll have to say no to even things I do want to do, just
because there’s not enough time. Or if I
feel like I don’t have enough time to practice or compose or things like that,
I’ll have to start cutting down. But definitely don’t do anything I don’t want
to do. So, there’s just a lot of things I want to do, so it’s a tricky balance,
I think.
RC: Anyone that you’d
like to play with that you haven’t played with?
MH: Oh, a ton of people. You know, it’s funny, though. I
don’t necessarily think of specific people that I want to, I mean there are a
ton. I mean I’ll hear someone that I’ve never played with and I think that
would be great but I don’t think that far ahead [laughs] so I don’t necessarily
think about that.
RC: So I’m guessing
you’re pretty well booked well into the future.
MH: Somewhat, yeah. Yeah. But I just kind of take
opportunities as they come, you know?
RC: So you’ve made
some records on Thirsty Ear, Matt Shipp’s Blue Series—have you worked with Matt
at all?
MH: I’ve never worked with Matt. I know him, but, no, I’ve
never worked with him.
RC: That could be
kind of interesting.
MH: I’m sure that would be great. He’s a great musician, I
love his playing.
RC: Um, he comes from
more that sort of aggressive, that sort of post-60s avant-garde kind of thing
and it would be interesting to hear your take with that. I’m sort of abstractly
imagining what that might sound like.
MH: It’s possible it could happen at some point. Who knows?
RC: Um, I should
probably let you go. One last question: what do you do for fun when you’re not
traveling and playing music.
MH: [laughs] Um, what do I do for fun…I really actually like
getting away from music because all my friends, I mean that’s the thing, you
get into this thing where all your friends are musicians and you’re playing
music and you’re talking about music and it becomes difficult to get away from
it. So, I have a few hobbies or things I do: I watch a lot of basketball—
RC: Basketball?
MH: Yeah, so I watch a lot of basketball games. I go
swimming. That’s a really nice thing to kind of Zen out, so I do laps at the
pool when I’m home. I study astrology so sometimes I’ll read things about that
and do astrology-related things.
RC: My wife wanted me
to ask you about astrology because we noticed that you’ve said, or intimated
that you were into astrology and she’s studied astrology.
MH: Oh, wow, I’ll have to talk to her about it.
RC: So, what’s your
sign?
MH: A Libra. Libra sun, Libra rising and there’s Capricorn
moon.
RC: We’re both
Scorpios, we have the same birthday.
MH: Oh, wow, that’s so interesting. I’ve met like two other
couples who share a birthday, or are one day off. That’s very interesting,
double Scorpios, very intense
.
RC: Yeah, ‘cuz
Scorpios generally can be kind of prickly but we get along great.
MH: Terrific.
RC: Do find the
astrological stuff fitting into your music or affect your music or inform what
you’re doing musically?
MH: Well, it’s interesting just the way you relate to
people, like, um, the band Instant Strangers is a funny example because me and
Tim Berne have the same birthday and then Tomas and Stephan, their birthdays
are one day off and the angle that our four Suns form is a trine, which is like
an easy flow of energy. So there’s kind of, you can see things like that
sometimes. I had a band once in college where we had all four elements: earth,
air, fire and water, each person in the band was a different element and that
was also kind of a cool balance. Also, in my septet, five out of seven of the
people are Libras.
RC: Wow.
MH: And I didn’t do that on purpose, that just happened. I
tend to be drawn to Libras, I think in some sense, especially musically. Ches
is a Libra, Jon Irabagon is a Libra, Ingrid, Jacob Garchik (__), Peter Evans.
So there’s, I have a lot of Libras in my life so, but it’s not just about the
Sun sign, everyone is a combination of many elements so that, if you look at
the big picture, it’s one of those things where the more you know, the more
interesting it gets.
RC: Right. Is the
opposite true, that if there’s some sort
of tension or you don’t find yourself not getting along that maybe it has to do
with sort of astrological issues?
MH: I think it sometimes does, yeah. Although I guess I tend
to look more at the charts of people I do get along with [laughs].
RC: Uh-huh. That
makes sense. And I just remembered one other question I wanted to ask you: it
seems like you were on your way back from Europe when Hurricane Sandy hit. Is
that right?
MH: Yeah, I got back like the day before the storm hit.
RC: Were you badly
affected by that?
MH: Actually, not really. My area which is Fort Greene,
Brooklyn was pretty, relatively unaffected and I feel very lucky because some
neighborhoods, I mean, still the Rockaways and Red Hook and some areas are just
devastated.
RC: And it shut down
public transportation and—
MH: Yeah. I was, for me it was kind of weird, lucky timing
because I didn’t have anywhere to be, I’d just gotten back from a five week
tour, I was exhausted, I just wanted to stay home. So that’s exactly what I
did, I didn’t go anywhere.
RC: Did you have
power?
MH: Yeah, they kept kind of flickering but it never went
out.
RC: Wow, that’s
fortunate.
MH: I mean the winds were like whipping, I have a kind of
wind tunnel out my window because I’m in the back of the building and it’s kind
of a narrow thing to the next street so the wind was just like whoosh, whipping
down alley.
RC: Wow.
MH: Yeah, it was—but everything was fine, really.
RC: I haven’t gotten
report from ____, but some of those downtown venues, I think, were affected by
it.
MH: You know, I don’t know. _____ told me the Stone
was fine, which I was really surprised about because Avenue C, I think, got hit
pretty bad although I haven’t been to the Stone since it happened. I know that
the Kitchen had a lot of damage, Issue Project Room, I think, had some damage.
So, yeah, I mean, it’s tough. A lot of people are really still struggling.
RC: Yeah, it’s
horrible. And apparently, it’s just going to get worse and worse.
MH: The gas thing was insane. You couldn’t get gas.
RC: Oh, right.
MH: I mean, I don’t have a car, but even I was trying to get
a ride to the airport, things like that. Just, people were waiting in line, the
guy who drove me to the airport, he said he waited for gas for 18 hours, he had
to wait overnight.
RC: This was to come
here?
MH: No, no. Just to get gas in Brooklyn, because there was
no gas for cars.
RC: Has it gotten any
better recently?
MH: Yeah, now it’s back to normal—but it took like three
weeks. It was really hectic [laughs].
RC: Wow. And New York
is hectic enough, you know what I mean? You don’t need any more complications.
MH: That’s crazy.
RC: Well, it’s after
4:30, so I should really let you go. I really appreciate this, thank you so
much!
MH: Yeah, well, thanks so much for coming, that’s really
cool.
RC: Oh, great and,
um, I sort of fell into this website thing. They saw my blog and said, hey, you
wanna write? So now I’m sort of their heavy metal and avant-garde writer, so—
MH: That’s awesome.
RC: There really
isn’t very much jazz on there, but I’m—
MH: And what’s the name of the site?
RC: Oh, Spectrum
Culture.
MH: Spectrum Culture, OK.
RC: So my goal is to
like bring in more jazz and avant-garde stuff. It’s mostly pop music, so…
MH: Is it based in Nashville?
RC: I think he’s in
Portland, Oregon.
MH: Cool.
RC: I don’t think it
has a big readership yet, but he has big plans for it—but who knows. I was sort
of flattered to be asked to do it because I never really set out to be a
writer, much less, you know, interviewing rock stars—
MH: [laughs]
RC: So, I really
appreciate it.
MH: Well, cool.
RC: So it will
probably be up in a couple of weeks.
MH: Great.
RC: And I’m looking
forward to the show tonight.
MH: Yeah, me too! And you said you wanted to take photos? If
you do, just tell them I said it was OK if they give any kind of a problem.
RC: OK and I also
wanted to ask you for you autograph.
MH: Oh, thanks, sure.
RC: I love the covers
on your records, they have like a similar aesthetic. Is that something you set
out to do?
MH: Well, that’s actually, the covers are designed by Megan
Craig who’s married to Nick Lloyd, who runs Firehouse, she does all the graphic
design. So she did this. The other ones that had drawings by my dad, which she
then put into color and did the layout, so it was kind of a collaboration
between her and my dad. And this one she did all by herself. So basically, she
kind of presented me with different directions she was going in and then we
kind of went from there. I liked this one.
RC: Oh, they’re
beautiful. Well, if you wouldn’t mind signing it, I’d appreciate it.
MH: Yeah. Is your name R-O-D-G-E-R?
RC: Yeah.
MH: OK. I couldn’t remember if it had the D in there.
RC: Oh, you are left handed.
MH: Yep [laughs].
RC: So I understand
in Suzuki it doesn’t matter which handed you are, they teach you to play
right-handed.
MH: You know, I don’t know, because I picked it up naturally
rightie, which is weird.
RC: And you play
guitar right-handed.
MH: Yep. But I do, it’s kind of weird, it’s like certain
things, like half of sports I would play, like I would play baseball rightie
but I would play basketball leftie. You know, I write leftie, eat food leftie,
but I play guitar rightie so it’s kind of a weird—
RC: So you’re sort of
ambidextrous.
MH: Yeah, I guess so.
RC: Interesting. So I
wonder how would it must be like to have your fretting hand be your dominant as
opposed to your non-dominant hand.
MH: Well, actually I had to spend a lot of time working on
my picking hand because that’s the weaker hand. So I spent years just doing
like picking exercises with a metronome just trying to get that hand up to
speed because it was weaker. So, I mean I still work a lot on picking stuff.
RC: Wow. Well, you
have a very aggressive pick attack—or it can be, not always.
MH: I always wanted, instinctually that’s how I always I
would, from the very beginning I think I’ve played like that, for some reason.
RC: Hmm.
MH: I don’t know why [laughs].
RC: Interesting.
Well, I feel like I could talk with you for hours but I’m sure you have things
to do.
MH: We have to go soundcheck soon, so I’ll probably go get
ready for that. Anyway, maybe I’ll talk to you after the show but, yeah, thanks
again.
RC: OK, well thank
you—I really appreciate it.
MH: Cool, well I’ll see you in a little bit.
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END OF PART THREE.
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